Kizashi Club

Ok, so this is more of a rant than a question I guess...I've posted about this problem before in a couple threads now I think, and I've tried to figure out what's causing my problem...but I can't seem to get any explanations.

The problem started over a year ago when I went in for an alignment at my local Suzuki dealer (now Kia) in order to straighten out the steering wheel in my Kizashi that I felt was off-center. I didn't think anything of it because I figured it'd be a fairly simple fix...probably just a question of setting the toe. Well, after getting the car back I immediately noticed as I was driving away that the steering felt different than before...the only way to describe it was "looser". At first I thought that maybe the dealer had lubed something up or that the tires would have to adjust to the alignment, so I figured the problem would go away. Weeks went by though and the steering didn't feel any better.

Fast forward over a year, through a couple of alignment checks and visits to the same dealer and another Suzuki dealer north of me, in addition to buying a new set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 tires...and the problem is still there!!! And it's driving me nuts!!!

Basically the whole issue at this point is that the steering has this "looseness" about it that makes the car incredibly tiring to drive. I almost want to say it exhibits bump steer, but I don't know if that is the correct diagnosis. The steering does however, feel like it wants to follow pretty much any little imperfection in the road--whether it's a pothole or undulation in the pavement. Anytime one of the wheels hits one of these imperfections, you can feel the steering wheel loosen up and want to turn on its own...and if the imperfection is large enough then sure enough the steering wheel will in fact turn in the direction the bump pulls it. And it'll happen anytime...whether I'm just driving straight on a road, whether I'm turning around a corner, or worse yet when I'm braking and coming to a stop.

It's incredibly tiring to drive the car with this steering feel, because the steering wheel constantly shifts between having a heavier feel and lighter feel. On-center feel is total crap as a result and the car in general doesn't feel connected to the road anymore...a stark contrast to how it felt when I first bought the car. It even gets to the point where you can feel a jitter in the steering wheel while driving at high speeds down the freeway (which is not something I experienced with the car before) and when taking an onramp, if there's an uneven expansion joint or small pothole, the steering wheel will suddenly loosen and want to turn when one of the wheels goes over it. It doesn't actually completely pull you...but if I weren't holding the wheel it would turn on its own. So you have to make sure you have both hands on the wheel in those situations.

I've tried checking the alignment a couple times already, but each time it turns out fine. I've taken the car back to the dealer where the original alignment was done, but they said they couldn't reproduce the problem. I've taken the car to another former Suzuki dealer up in LA and they also said they couldn't reproduce the problem... I'm like what?!?! I promise I'm not making this up...do they think I have nothing better to do than drive around wasting time trying to diagnose a problem that doesn't exist?! I've owned the car since brand new, and I'm pretty sure I know whether it's driving differently or not...and it's not a case of the steering feel gradually changing...it's been a night/day experience. Yet the dealers for whatever reason refuse to acknowledge the problem! Either that or they're completely incompetent, since after all one of them had the nerve to tell me that the car had power steering fluid...

Anyway, my last effort in trying to figure out where the problem lies was to change the tires from the original Dunlops to something else. So I bought a new set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's...with the result being that the problem got marginally better for a couple of weeks. But now it's pretty much back to the same issue...maybe even worse.

I honestly don't know what to do. The car's steering is really frustrating me at this point...if it weren't for the fact that I've invested this much money in it, I probably would've off-loaded it and gotten a new car a long time ago. But I figure that whatever the fix might ultimately be, it's still going to be cheaper than selling a highly depreciated car and buying a new one.

But what do I check now? The suspension? Shocks? Swaybar bushings? Power steering unit? After getting the new tires, I did do one more alignment to make sure that I wasn't going to wear my tires prematurely. Both toe and camber were a little off so they adjusted that, and the car did drive a little different for about a day...but the problem is still there. I'm pretty sure that alignment is not my problem, because I've had it checked and adjusted to spec so many times now, with no real improvement in handling/steering feel.

And one last thing to note...even though the problem is pretty much constantly present, it does seem to fluctuate a bit in severity. Sometimes I'll take the car out and the steering feels really loose and sensitive to road imperfections, easily wanting to turn left and right as the car goes over bumps...and other times it feels stiffer and heavier and less prone to loosening up. Very strange.

I don't know what to do...I just wish there was some kind of suspension/steering expert in town who could take a thorough look at it. There has to be a culprit behind this...

Ugh

could that be your steering sensor

Sounds hard to determine what the cause is.
Some of it makes it sound like you have a defective electric power steering unit.

Given your descriptions, I'd first start with getting the front suspension checked. Faulty shocks will cause the wheels to rebound more than they should and it will cause handling problems. I actually found out that all of my VW Camper's shocks were goners this way because of how poorly the car handled the potholes in terms of handling feedback. It was a world of difference once I installed new shocks.

Also, when was the last time you got your wheels balanced? I know my are not in balance since I rotated them and both the ride and noise have gotten worse. While it's unlikely that unbalanced wheels would cause the issues you have, it sounds like the dealers you've gone to have not fully investigated the issue and merely checked alignment. Also make sure they have the revised alignment specs since the original specs for many Kizashis were faulty.

While the sway bar linkages and bushings should be also checked, your descriptions make it sound like either the shocks are faulty or the power steering system is somehow defective.

Try a reputable suspension/alignment specialist to see if they can find anything wrong given you've had bad luck with Suzuki service dealers. If the shocks are ruled out, I can't think of any cause other than the actual electric power steering unit being defective.

I'm starting to wonder about the PS too. I haven't a clue on how to diagnose it though

Steering rack not cheap for this car.. i had mine replaced

Do you know if the dealers have plugged in a Suzuki Diagnostic Tool to check for any error codes in the steering system? There are a whole stack of codes related just to the steering. They probably don't light up the dash warning light if logged.

Tie rod end ball joints could be worthwhile checking (on top of what's already been mentioned by others.)

If your front sway bar / links were at fault you should have audible clunking noises over bumps.

I wouldn't write off the alignment just yet. Caster is the key variable here, and the most difficult to adjust ... Meaning most shops don't do it, especially since it's not a tire wear factor.

Post up the results of your alignment - what numbers they got - and maybe we can help.

You might also see if you can drive another Kizashi so you can re-aquire the feel of one that is handling correctly. Thant way you'll know how far off it really is. I know if it was me and a year had passed by, I'd have forgotten what the handling was really like other than I really liked it.

KuroNekko wrote:Sounds hard to determine what the cause is.
Some of it makes it sound like you have a defective electric power steering unit.

Given your descriptions, I'd first start with getting the front suspension checked. Faulty shocks will cause the wheels to rebound more than they should and it will cause handling problems. I actually found out that all of my VW Camper's shocks were goners this way because of how poorly the car handled the potholes in terms of handling feedback. It was a world of difference once I installed new shocks.

Also, when was the last time you got your wheels balanced? I know my are not in balance since I rotated them and both the ride and noise have gotten worse. While it's unlikely that unbalanced wheels would cause the issues you have, it sounds like the dealers you've gone to have not fully investigated the issue and merely checked alignment. Also make sure they have the revised alignment specs since the original specs for many Kizashis were faulty.

While the sway bar linkages and bushings should be also checked, your descriptions make it sound like either the shocks are faulty or the power steering system is somehow defective.

Try a reputable suspension/alignment specialist to see if they can find anything wrong given you've had bad luck with Suzuki service dealers. If the shocks are ruled out, I can't think of any cause other than the actual electric power steering unit being defective.

murcod wrote:Do you know if the dealers have plugged in a Suzuki Diagnostic Tool to check for any error codes in the steering system? There are a whole stack of codes related just to the steering. They probably don't light up the dash warning light if logged.

Tie rod end ball joints could be worthwhile checking (on top of what's already been mentioned by others.)

If your front sway bar / links were at fault you should have audible clunking noises over bumps.

I have thought about the power steering being the issue and I even brought it up with the dealer. But I don't know if they actually used the Suzuki Diagnostic tool to check for any error codes with the PS unit...they claimed they did. Then again, these are the same people who said that the mechanic checked the car for any power steering fluid leaks... So to be honest, I'm skeptical...

I don't have the diagnostic tool myself, but according to the full service manual available here, there is supposedly a way to check the PS control unit yourself by using a voltage meter. But...the control module is located somewhere underneath the carpet in the front passenger footwell if I remember correctly, so it would take some interior disassembly to do the job, something that I've been hesitant to do.


Funny you mention a clunk...there is actually a clunk coming from somewhere in front of the car when going over bigger bumps, and it's been going on for a long time...even predating this steering issue. I brought it up with the dealer early on but of course they told me they couldn't hear anything... I'm not sure though if it has anything to do with the suspension though, because to me it sounds like it's coming from inside the car, although maybe that's misleading.

Also, I should mention that there is a distinct creaking coming from the front suspension when going over certain significant bumps. For example, in the parking garage where I work, there is a speed bump that always causes me to hear the creaking whenever I drive over it, probably because it's big enough to cause the car to really compress the front shocks. Otherwise you don't hear it, but this morning in fact, I actually heard it again when driving through an intersection that had a pretty big dip in it...probably because I was driving fast enough to cause the car to really drop down low when going through the dip.

I'm not sure if it's related, but I did bring up the creaking with the dealer, but of course they once again told me the couldn't reproduce the problem. Which this time I can't really blame them, because given how stiff the suspension is on this car, it's pretty hard to compress the shocks enough to hear the creak I think...but I'm pretty sure it's there. That being said, I can't tell if there's anything wrong with them...casual observation when taking the wheels off doesn't show any leakage or defects on them.

~tc~ wrote:I wouldn't write off the alignment just yet. Caster is the key variable here, and the most difficult to adjust ... Meaning most shops don't do it, especially since it's not a tire wear factor.

Post up the results of your alignment - what numbers they got - and maybe we can help.

I'll post up the specs when I get a chance, but I think I remember caster being to spec when I was comparing the alignment results to the official specifications from Suzuki.

Also, the wheels were balanced a little over a month ago when I got the new tires.

LPSISRL wrote:You might also see if you can drive another Kizashi so you can re-aquire the feel of one that is handling correctly. Thant way you'll know how far off it really is. I know if it was me and a year had passed by, I'd have forgotten what the handling was really like other than I really liked it.

Unfortunately, that's a pretty tall order. Kizashi's are a very rare breed in San Diego...I'd be lucky if I even saw one once in a blue moon... And of course, the local former Suzuki dealer doesn't have a single Kizashi on hand...hasn't had one in three years.