Kizashi Club

So this is a question for those with the RF system, both with and without the Kenwood Navi.

What's your soundstage like?

The reason I ask this is after not sitting in the Kizashi for a month, it sounded like the soundstage was all in the front and the sub wasn't working. After a day or two I got used to it, but now I'm wondering if something's wrong that I didn't catch before.

What's "soundstage"?

LPSISRL wrote:What's "soundstage"?

Sorry, I should have defined that better.

Soundstage is where the sound sounds like it is in relation to you--front of you, behind you, beside you. A quick way to find out is close your eyes and listen to where things are coming from. You can also try this with a good set of reference headphones (like the AKG240M) and you'll know how everything should sound.

SamirD,
If I'm not mistaken, I think you wrote that you were gone for a while and your wife was using the car. Did you first make sure that your wife did not accidentally change the settings such as Fade and Balance?

Soundstage is the overall dimension and position of the stage - the width, depth, height and position relative to you. It should simulate you sitting in the audience at the performance, be wider than the car, and have a 3D "feel"

Imaging is the placement of hype he particular artists within the stage. Lewd singer in the middle, guitar on one side, bass on the other, drummer behind them, etc. Each artist should present a distinct image - the two people aren't occupying the same body on stage, the audio system should not reproduce it that way.

For me, the soundstage has good width, but it is too close. Even with fading to the front, you can't get the stage out on the hood like you are sitting in the 4th row. It's always like you're sitting on the stage. Imaging is pretty bad. Players are not spaced evenly and tend to be smashed into the middle.

(Back in the day, I was a serious car audio competitor and judge, multiple IASCA regional wins, and a podium finish at the a World Finals before I wrecked my truck)

KuroNekko wrote:SamirD,
If I'm not mistaken, I think you wrote that you were gone for a while and your wife was using the car. Did you first make sure that your wife did not accidentally change the settings such as Fade and Balance?

First think I checked. She actually got mad at me for asking saying that I'm the only one who's ever changed anything on it.

~tc~ wrote:Soundstage is the overall dimension and position of the stage - the width, depth, height and position relative to you. It should simulate you sitting in the audience at the performance, be wider than the car, and have a 3D "feel"

Imaging is the placement of hype he particular artists within the stage. Lewd singer in the middle, guitar on one side, bass on the other, drummer behind them, etc. Each artist should present a distinct image - the two people aren't occupying the same body on stage, the audio system should not reproduce it that way.

For me, the soundstage has good width, but it is too close. Even with fading to the front, you can't get the stage out on the hood like you are sitting in the 4th row. It's always like you're sitting on the stage. Imaging is pretty bad. Players are not spaced evenly and tend to be smashed into the middle.

(Back in the day, I was a serious car audio competitor and judge, multiple IASCA regional wins, and a podium finish at the a World Finals before I wrecked my truck)

Thank you for the great definitions! Much better than what I wrote.

I agree with feeling like you're 'sitting on the stage' and the width. Initially when I sat in the car after a month, it felt like there was no rear staging whatsoever, just bass. I guess I'm using to it now, but this still bothers me because if the rear speakers are out for some reason, I may not know it. I find the imaging is muddy, but that's always been there, probably from the bad Kenwood/RF connections we all know about.

I think the muddy imaging is from the miss being low in the doors and tweets being high. It's just too hard to perfectly synchronize the arrival time of the sound given the different path lengths.

The tonal balance (lows vs mids vs highs) and accuracy is fantastic though. Very nice frequency response.

~tc~ wrote:I think the muddy imaging is from the miss being low in the doors and tweets being high. It's just too hard to perfectly synchronize the arrival time of the sound given the different path lengths.

The tonal balance (lows vs mids vs highs) and accuracy is fantastic though. Very nice frequency response.

But this is a pretty common setup for what I've seen--tweeters in the doors like that.

As far as the staging, have you also noticed the same thing as my observations or do you think I've got something wrong with my system?

These things are always hard to describe and understand in writing, but it sounds like ours act the same - mine is Nav so might be slightly different.

Tweeters in the door is common stock, but not common on the competition circuit or in high end home speakers. You want the mid and tweet as close together as possible. A lot of people make custom coaxial speakers from separates with the mid and tweet aimed very specifically to optimize the off axis response - this seemed to me to be the way to get that "3D" effect where the stage has depth in addition to width and height.

I had tweets in the mirror panel, but they were crossed over super high and there more for ambience. Coaxials in the kick panel were the main source. I did not have any rear speakers at all. When you go to a concert, do you face the stage or the exit? There is not really much need for rear speakers if the front is set up properly.