The Kizzy makes top list for Teens (Again)

[KuroNekko]

I agree with the general consensus on safety and what's a suitable car for a teen. I don't think the latest gizmos for safety are necessary and wouldn't be a parent rushing out to buy my teen a brand new Volvo S80. However, I think the safety components that are now standard on cars sold in the US are a good idea. They include what Speed_Racer had in mind: ABS, ESC, and Traction Control. These all help in panic situations where a young novice driver may react in a way that would have the car lose control. All these systems help the vehicle maintain control in a moment of panic which I think is a good idea.
However, other systems like back-up cameras, blind spot monitoring, lane departure warning, etc. aren't necessary. These are more like aids to help you be a lazy driver. As long as the young driver was properly trained to check these areas before driving into them, you don't need technology doing that for you.
In the end, the most important safety feature is the mindset of the driver. It's great to have a safe car like the Kizashi and even newer safer models, but what's most important is preventing an accident and that's largely up to the person behind the wheel. This is why I strongly support extended driver training programs for teen drivers. I think the standard for teens to get licenses in America is way too low therefore I think further training is a good idea. Car accidents are the leading cause of death among American youth from the ages of around 15 to 25 yet very little is being done about it. Car accidents kill way more youth than guns and drugs yet get little attention in terms of trying to prevent these deaths. People spend way too much time and money vilifying "assault weapons" and marijuana when in fact these things statistically contribute very little in the deaths or even the serious harming of youth.

Automotive technology can only do so much when the biggest factor is in the knowledge, skill, and maturity of the driver. I really think that better training of young drivers should be advocated and practiced so that teens become better drivers. This will then result in lower accident rates and car-related deaths among teens.

[SamirD]

The downside to making it a car for a teen is the inevitable body damage from a newbie driver...I can imagine that with the pull out from the USA, it would be an expensive choice in a market with scarce parts...but then a teen could drive a Franken-Zuki.

If I was a parent, I'd have a 'you broke it, you buy it policy' on repairs.

Wouldn't even be an issue for me. No way in hell I would buy a kid a car, so it would be obvious that they were going to fix the car that they had to buy themselves. Far less likely that they would wreck it in that case, too.

Yes! I'd actually do this, and also apply the 'you broke it, you fix it' policy. I'd help though and guide them through FSMs, tools, shops, correct procedure, etc. But if they didn't want to listen and 'knew it all', I'll let them roll on their own and secretly double-check all their work for any potential fatal mistakes.

[SamirD]

Agree with you "almost" 100%. However, I'm somewhat mixed on the "available electronic aids". You can get a Kizzy with a self dimming rear view mirror, rear view camera, and rear sonar, etc. which weren't available on most ""reasonably"" priced vehicles during the time the Kizzy was manufactured. However, electronic/safety systems/aids like cross traffic alert system, blind spot monitoring, pre collision system, radar cruise control, lane departure alert, automatic high beams, and a host of others are not available on our cars but are available in the new car market. True, everyone has their opinions on the relative worth of each system and you would need to pay more (or much more) for a vehicle with their availability. Still...

Don't get me wrong. I love my Kizzy & agree with you that it would be a good car for teens (safety, available options, electronic aids, etc) but the competition also offers vehicles with many features that would be attractive to teens... just not at the price you can get the Kizzy for. I think that's my main point. A used Kizzy offers the buyer, whether teens or anyone else, a lot of vehicle (which also handles superbly) at a price point well below the competition. IMHO, "price point' is the key to it's relative worth in comparison to other choices.

Great points, though I should have clarified that by electronic aids, I was thinking ABS, ESC, and T/C. None of which I had in the cars I drove as a teenager - and would have come in handy when driving through the long, snowy New England winters.

Actually, the Kizashi is the first car I've owned that has any of those, or even airbags and power windows.

That's the way to learn. I bet you could easily surpass all the drivers here in MKE even in a fwd car with bald summer tires. I wish I had your winter skills.

[SamirD]

Great points, though I should have clarified that by electronic aids, I was thinking ABS, ESC, and T/C. None of which I had in the cars I drove as a teenager - and would have come in handy when driving through the long, snowy New England winters.

Actually, the Kizashi is the first car I've owned that has any of those, or even airbags and power windows.

Yes, however, an extremely beneficial thing happened with the lack of all that techno-crap...it sure taught you how to properly operate and control the machine in varying conditions. Your brain and motor skills actually learned the physics behind something that was going on. Hand-Eye-Seat of the Pants coordination. You know when to use caution, when you can push a little harder. Life lessons in Cause and Effect, Action/Reaction...priceless.

I just read a disturbing article this week in the local paper stating that kids entering school severely lack the fine motor skills to pick up a crayon and control it with the tips of their fingers. You know, the precursor to writing properly as well as many other things. "How did this happen!" the experts ask. Well gee, let me think.... Sound trivial? Not when a single school district is throwing tens of thousands of additional tax payer dollars (according to the article) at what I believe is a techno induced man-made developmental "problem". Go watch that Pixar movie Wall-E. It's the vision I had of the not so distant future after reading that article.

Right on! The humans in Wall-E showed what will happen to us as human beings if we don't figure out how to stop hurting ourselves. But it's inevitable that we will destroy ourselves back a couple of thousand years, as we historically do, to then come back and move forward by another thousand. I'm just thankful to be in this era since it's the best so far. Would've sucked to be in the period right before the dark ages and then watch everything crumble. Or better yet, see the fall of Rome--ouch. Talk about getting thrown back into the caveman era...

[SamirD]

I agree with the general consensus on safety and what's a suitable car for a teen. I don't think the latest gizmos for safety are necessary and wouldn't be a parent rushing out to buy my teen a brand new Volvo S80. However, I think the safety components that are now standard on cars sold in the US are a good idea. They include what Speed_Racer had in mind: ABS, ESC, and Traction Control. These all help in panic situations where a young novice driver may react in a way that would have the car lose control. All these systems help the vehicle maintain control in a moment of panic which I think is a good idea.
However, other systems like back-up cameras, blind spot monitoring, lane departure warning, etc. aren't necessary. These are more like aids to help you be a lazy driver. As long as the young driver was properly trained to check these areas before driving into them, you don't need technology doing that for you.
In the end, the most important safety feature is the mindset of the driver. It's great to have a safe car like the Kizashi and even newer safer models, but what's most important is preventing an accident and that's largely up to the person behind the wheel. This is why I strongly support extended driver training programs for teen drivers. I think the standard for teens to get licenses in America is way too low therefore I think further training is a good idea. Car accidents are the leading cause of death among American youth from the ages of around 15 to 25 yet very little is being done about it. Car accidents kill way more youth than guns and drugs yet get little attention in terms of trying to prevent these deaths. People spend way too much time and money vilifying "assault weapons" and marijuana when in fact these things statistically contribute very little in the deaths or even the serious harming of youth.

Automotive technology can only do so much when the biggest factor is in the knowledge, skill, and maturity of the driver. I really think that better training of young drivers should be advocated and practiced so that teens become better drivers. This will then result in lower accident rates and car-related deaths among teens.

One of the additional problems created by the systems like abs, esc, and tc is that manufacturers now use them to make a car safe only when these systems are enabled. I once almost lost control of an Acura from the late 1990s (forgot the model) on a test drive where I had turned the systems off to feel the raw car. Without those systems on, the car literally was all over the place and next to impossible to manage in the quick lane change maneuver I tested on it. My Porsche has a custom ABS module that actually reduces the braking distance, and it say in the manual that if the unit fails, leave extra room because braking distance will increase.

But this all comes back to training like you said. It is simply far too easy for someone to get a license by driving around a city block (literally that's what I had to do) and then they are free to roam all the Interstates, side roads, back roads, and every other road in this country, even those that are tricky, dangerous, or just not safe.

I actually wrote a letter back in the day to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration who is in charge of not only creating FMVSS mandates like airbags and seat belts, but also the driving tests. They were bragging about how their mandating of air bags had saved thousands of lives (and also contributes significantly to why modern cars are pretty expensive compared to the past). When I found out they were in charge of driving test development, it's was almost comical--they allow anyone to get a license and then create mandates to try to keep them safe. What about those that are unfortunate enough to die each year because of this system? They never replied to my letter suggesting that scenario-based driving simulators be used for multiple phase testing before someone even gets behind the wheel in real life. I think this is now done in limited fashion today, but it's still not enough.

[KuroNekko]

One of the additional problems created by the systems like abs, esc, and tc is that manufacturers now use them to make a car safe only when these systems are enabled. I once almost lost control of an Acura from the late 1990s (forgot the model) on a test drive where I had turned the systems off to feel the raw car. Without those systems on, the car literally was all over the place and next to impossible to manage in the quick lane change maneuver I tested on it. My Porsche has a custom ABS module that actually reduces the braking distance, and it say in the manual that if the unit fails, leave extra room because braking distance will increase.

They are enabled by default now. In fact, you can't disable ABS by controls. As with ESC and T/C, it's on by default and you can only disable it by pressing and holding the button which requires deliberate intent. Also, the main reason why automakers even let you disable it is for rocking yourself out of snow, sand, or mud. T/C limits wheel slip but you need it when rocking loose out of a rut. In essence, these systems are basically always on by default and the average driver probably doesn't even know that you can turn ESC and T/C off if needed.

[Speed_Racer]

Automotive technology can only do so much when the biggest factor is in the knowledge, skill, and maturity of the driver. I really think that better training of young drivers should be advocated and practiced so that teens become better drivers. This will then result in lower accident rates and car-related deaths among teens.

I wish there were inexpensive options available for additional driver training. Drivers Ed is woefully inadequate to prepare young adults for driving on public roads, but there is unfortunately a huge price gap to get additional training.

For example, the Bondurant School has a teen driving course, here are the rates: 1 Day - $799 | 2 Day - $1499 | 3 Day - $1999. Skip Barber is $995. I've seen independent organizations going for $600-$1500+. My first car only cost me $600...no way could I afford additional training, and that's a large burden on parents. For older drivers, advanced driving school rates are just as high if not higher.

Maybe get kids involved in auto-x?

[Ronzuki]

In essence, these systems are basically always on by default and the average driver probably doesn't even know that you can turn ESC and T/C off if needed.

Let's face it, most don't know what ESC and T/C even is.

[nytq]

All the money and training doesn't compare to basic fear I had as a teen of damaging my car. Or even worse having the wrath of my mother ( or in many cases, and even worse, my grandmother) I won't even get into the shame of bringing home a ticket.

[SamirD]

Automotive technology can only do so much when the biggest factor is in the knowledge, skill, and maturity of the driver. I really think that better training of young drivers should be advocated and practiced so that teens become better drivers. This will then result in lower accident rates and car-related deaths among teens.

I wish there were inexpensive options available for additional driver training. Drivers Ed is woefully inadequate to prepare young adults for driving on public roads, but there is unfortunately a huge price gap to get additional training.

For example, the Bondurant School has a teen driving course, here are the rates: 1 Day - $799 | 2 Day - $1499 | 3 Day - $1999. Skip Barber is $995. I've seen independent organizations going for $600-$1500+. My first car only cost me $600...no way could I afford additional training, and that's a large burden on parents. For older drivers, advanced driving school rates are just as high if not higher.

Maybe get kids involved in auto-x?

Yes, autox is the solution. The HSV and MKE chapters both have a driving school which prepares one for safe driving as well as autox or any performance driving. It is a MUST DO for any new drivers. Sitting through the classroom session alone is worth the price of admission.

All the money and training doesn't compare to basic fear I had as a teen of damaging my car. Or even worse having the wrath of my mother ( or in many cases, and even worse, my grandmother) I won't even get into the shame of bringing home a ticket.

But most teens have no conscious anymore. They have this attitude about 'deserving' everything just for being who they are. If kids were sensible as you were, it's more of a team effort rather than fighting them.

Case in point is my uncle. He has 3 kids that he's worked damn hard to make sure they had anything they desired. He gave them $100 for the weekend to hit parties and such. They were popular, got to to go college for free. And now that he's in some financial hot water because he's older and can't keep up with his businesses, where are the kids? No where to be seen. No help with the financial issues, nothing. His eldest daughter living in Alaska won't even let him see her tax return! And anytime he wants to see her, he has to fly her down! This is the next generation--selfish, self-centered, and spoiled beyond all without any sense of consciousness, community, or loyalty.