Hi new to shifting
- Brock
Paddle Shifting
I don't have a CVT so I can't comment from experience with it but you should note that those aren't real "gears". The automatic Kizashi uses a Continuously Variable Transmissions which is essentially a steel belt on two pulleys. The "gears" are preset ratios on the CVT that mimic the sensation of shifting. Also, given paddle shifters are sequential and electronically controlled, I think it would be hard for you to ruin the engine from improper shifting. I imagine the electronics safeguard you from doing so.
You would really need to have a manual transmission and have an epic misshift fail (like shifting to 2nd instead of 4th from 3rd at redline) to really damage the powertrain, I think.
Regardless, I'd be more careful with that CVT if I were you.
You would really need to have a manual transmission and have an epic misshift fail (like shifting to 2nd instead of 4th from 3rd at redline) to really damage the powertrain, I think.
Regardless, I'd be more careful with that CVT if I were you.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
Now that I know a little more about CVT's and how they differ from conventional transmissions, the notion of manually shifting the CVT seems kinda like a gimmick to me. The computer is constantly adjusting the balance between torque and horsepower based on the RPM's that are being delivered by the engine and the throttle input from the driver, and can make adjustments to the CVT in fractions of a second.
Knowing this, it seems kind of silly to me now to manually shift the CVT. There's no way that using the preset "gear" ratios that are configured in the car can do as good a job of providing the optimal torque for a given RPM level whenenev you want it. For example shifting from 5th/6th into 2nd with the CVT to take a hard turn is going to feel weird because the engine RPM's will jump slightly, but the computer doesn't tell the transmission to pump up and hold the torque until you actually get on the gas pedal. Shifting down to second with a conventional transmission will jolt the car if you don't properly rev-match the engine RPM's with the wheel RPM's because the gear ratio in 2nd abruptly transfers a bunch of torque to the wheels. Shifting down in the CVT doesn't cause a big jolt despite the jump in engine RPM's because the computer hasn't told the CVT to output more torque yet, and even when you do try to accelerate out of the turn, the computer applies the torque gradually.
A lot of people complain that CVT's are "soul-less", and driving a car with a CVT does require a slightly different driving style than that of a conventional transmission, if you want to wring every lb-ft of torque out of it. But for regular driving the concept is the same as a conventional automatic: hold the gas pedal until you reach the speed you want to go, release the gas, then the car will drop the RPM's so you can save fuel.
But if I had a million dollars, I would probably start looking into programming a CVT controller won't drop the RPM's or torque when you let off the gas, rather than fiddling with the preset ratios. I have a hunch that the Kizashi would be a mean auto-cross car if you didn't have to fight with the transmission trying to cut power every time you let off the gas. Honestly, that's the worst part about any automatic, CVT or conventional, you go to let of the gas and the car immediately shifts to the lowest ratio, and there could be a delay of precious seconds trying to get the RPM's/torque to come back up.
Knowing this, it seems kind of silly to me now to manually shift the CVT. There's no way that using the preset "gear" ratios that are configured in the car can do as good a job of providing the optimal torque for a given RPM level whenenev you want it. For example shifting from 5th/6th into 2nd with the CVT to take a hard turn is going to feel weird because the engine RPM's will jump slightly, but the computer doesn't tell the transmission to pump up and hold the torque until you actually get on the gas pedal. Shifting down to second with a conventional transmission will jolt the car if you don't properly rev-match the engine RPM's with the wheel RPM's because the gear ratio in 2nd abruptly transfers a bunch of torque to the wheels. Shifting down in the CVT doesn't cause a big jolt despite the jump in engine RPM's because the computer hasn't told the CVT to output more torque yet, and even when you do try to accelerate out of the turn, the computer applies the torque gradually.
A lot of people complain that CVT's are "soul-less", and driving a car with a CVT does require a slightly different driving style than that of a conventional transmission, if you want to wring every lb-ft of torque out of it. But for regular driving the concept is the same as a conventional automatic: hold the gas pedal until you reach the speed you want to go, release the gas, then the car will drop the RPM's so you can save fuel.
But if I had a million dollars, I would probably start looking into programming a CVT controller won't drop the RPM's or torque when you let off the gas, rather than fiddling with the preset ratios. I have a hunch that the Kizashi would be a mean auto-cross car if you didn't have to fight with the transmission trying to cut power every time you let off the gas. Honestly, that's the worst part about any automatic, CVT or conventional, you go to let of the gas and the car immediately shifts to the lowest ratio, and there could be a delay of precious seconds trying to get the RPM's/torque to come back up.
My Cars (Their Names)
'93 Ford Escort (Jorge - Prior)
'06 Kia Optima EX (Sakuya - Prior)
'11 Suzuki Kizashi SE AWD (Azumi)
'09 Subaru Impreza 2.5i Base 5MT(Akari - Prior)
'11 Chevy Cruze Eco 6MT (Erika - Prior)
'12 Suzuki Kizashi Sport SLS AWD (Kitsune)
'93 Ford Escort (Jorge - Prior)
'06 Kia Optima EX (Sakuya - Prior)
'11 Suzuki Kizashi SE AWD (Azumi)
'09 Subaru Impreza 2.5i Base 5MT(Akari - Prior)
'11 Chevy Cruze Eco 6MT (Erika - Prior)
'12 Suzuki Kizashi Sport SLS AWD (Kitsune)
Precisely why the manual shifting, console select lever or paddles, are in place to override all of that mindless nonsense. A full on thrashing in manual holds the ratio solid, allowing me, the driver, to put as much throttle (read rpms) into said thrashing as I see fit. The rev limiter will cut you off before anything, in the engine at least, wants to leave the vehicle. Yes, the rev limiter works just fine, I've tested it many times. A click of a paddle and it's instantly in the next up or down preset ratio. Once rolling, I can get up to speed or engine brake in the twisties as I see fit...not the computers. A very well thought out feature, at least in the K, is that when I'm done with any given spur of the moment hammering via paddle shifting, the car automatically returns to 'auto, D' all on its own after some time w/o any driver input on the paddles. The Heep's manual tiptronic style system does not. Once initiated, I have to manually hold the select lever in the 'upshift' position for a certain amount of time in order for it to get the picture that I'm done messing around and return to auto. That's a real pain after getting so used to the K's intuitive 'back to normal on its own' operation.KansasKid wrote:
it seems kind of silly to me now to manually shift the CVT. There's no way that using the preset "gear" ratios that are configured in the car can do as good a job of providing the optimal torque for a given RPM level whenenev you want it.
...that's the worst part about any automatic, CVT or conventional, you go to let of the gas and the car immediately shifts to the lowest ratio, and there could be a delay of precious seconds trying to get the RPM's/torque to come back up.
Ron
2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded
)
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top (
sold)
2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded
) 1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top (
sold)
My experience with paddle shifting is that there are no set ratios. They vary based on how you are driving at the time. I've seen a difference of over 200 RPM when moving between the same "gears" based on how I'm driving. In a nutshell, they are shorter when pushing it and longer when not. Just my observation. Anybody paddle shifting may want to check this out themselves.
2011 Kizashi SLS CVT (silver)
2005 Honda Odyssey
Priors:
2009 Suzuki SX4 Cross AWD 5-speed Tech package (vapor metallic blue)
2005 Honda Odyssey
Priors:
2009 Suzuki SX4 Cross AWD 5-speed Tech package (vapor metallic blue)
so. I may have mentioned this before. but the manual mode is for sporty driving on backroads (from my experience anyway). See, you get almost no engine braking in cvt mode. Granted the cvt keeps the engine in the powerband most of the time, for performance driving on mountain roads, it feels almost skechy to me to use cvt mode. I feel like there is no control over the car. Also keep in mind, the engine helps keep the car balanced and planted in corners, based on throttle use and stuff like that.
Basically, the cvt mode is just too random and weird for any real twisty road driving. Atleast in my opinion. Also, i really dont think the manual mode shifting is that slow. you should be selecting gears before and after corners anyway, so it doesnt need to be rocket speed. Im not sure how many of you take your kizashi's on like one lane back/mountain roads, but if your only driving in the city, on the highway, or or whatever just normal driving, i can see how manual mode is worthless to you. Especially first gear. first gear is worthless. I ususally use the cvt mode up to about 30mph or so then switch it to manual mode, cos it does come off the line MUCH better in cvt mode.
I mean, this is my first cvt car... but i like it better than automatics. I rented a fiat 500 crossover thing, and it had sport shift. with a 9 speed transmission. it was freaking awful. It was SO BAD. the shifts literally took 2 seconds or so after pushing it into the next or previous gear to actually happen. Plus, there is no engine braking because the converter doesnt lock up that much i guess. I dont have a lot of experience with cars other than manuals, (this is my second non manual car over the last 15 years.) that being said, i kinda like it. gets crazy good gas mileage, and i can sit in traffic and not have to shift all the time.
Basically, the cvt mode is just too random and weird for any real twisty road driving. Atleast in my opinion. Also, i really dont think the manual mode shifting is that slow. you should be selecting gears before and after corners anyway, so it doesnt need to be rocket speed. Im not sure how many of you take your kizashi's on like one lane back/mountain roads, but if your only driving in the city, on the highway, or or whatever just normal driving, i can see how manual mode is worthless to you. Especially first gear. first gear is worthless. I ususally use the cvt mode up to about 30mph or so then switch it to manual mode, cos it does come off the line MUCH better in cvt mode.
I mean, this is my first cvt car... but i like it better than automatics. I rented a fiat 500 crossover thing, and it had sport shift. with a 9 speed transmission. it was freaking awful. It was SO BAD. the shifts literally took 2 seconds or so after pushing it into the next or previous gear to actually happen. Plus, there is no engine braking because the converter doesnt lock up that much i guess. I dont have a lot of experience with cars other than manuals, (this is my second non manual car over the last 15 years.) that being said, i kinda like it. gets crazy good gas mileage, and i can sit in traffic and not have to shift all the time.
your kizashi's on like one lane back/mountain roads
I was considering this this very morning on my left-early-for-crazy-driving-thrills run into work.
I realized my normal 'cruise' speed on unpaved is 45--65MPH, and on two-(or less)-lane paved it's 50--75MPH.
My heavy-foot mode moves that dirt number up to 90MPH, and paved up to 110MPH.
Oh some day I'm gonna crash at a ton........