Allstate Drivewise and other ODBII port insurance devices

[Remav]

The Autobahn is not really a good comparison. I'm well aware that it's safer despite some segments having no speed limit. However, keep into account that it's just one freeway and it's also not nearly as congested as American freeways. We simply have way more cars and way more drivers.

Sorry, but I have to correct your idea of what the Autobahn is. Don't feel bad. I had imagined it to be about the same... until I drove on it last Nov. My 1st surprise is that it's not really "The Autobahn" as if there were 1 freeway going from one end of Germany to the other. It's more like our interstate freeway system. You can be on the A1, A2... A8... A<I don't know how many there are> but each is just like here where you go from one freeway to the next; I-80 to I-81 for example. Second, the speed limits change, and they change fairly often... 80km, 100, 120, no speed limit, 100, 80... you get the picture. Oh, and speaking of pictures they do have cameras set up (not too thickly deployed) and they call it "Getting Blitzed" when the flash goes off & you later find a ticket in the mail.

Next, sadly, was the amount of congestion. You have to consider population vs country size. I was the typical American car enthusiast who just couldn't wait to go full B@11z Out on the Autobahn. We rented what is pretty much an entry level Mercedes akin to the CLA 180 over here, but without all that MPG/MPH hogging smog crap. I only had 2 fairly good opportunities to fulfill my wishes. Now I have since been told that there are some segments obviously more remote than the ones I was on, but mind you, I did drive hundreds of miles in all times of the day & night from Bavaria near Austria past Frankfurt & back with several trips around Munich. 2!. 2 good chances was all. (136 mph & was probably still a couple more left in it. BTW same car different trip I was able to squeeze 48 MPG out of it!) ...and there is a lot of construction where you are stuck at 0 to 20 mph.

Finally, it keeps you on your toes trying to be a good courteous driver when in light to medium traffic in unlimited speed areas. Pass the guy going 90 cause you're clipping along at 110 then pull over for the Audi going 140. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

So in the end I'd say you are maybe 1/2 right. It is a much better comparison than you realize, but I think one of the main factors is that everyone is accustomed to high speeds and those roads are made with superior material. Very smooth & kept up. Everyone pretty much follows the rules meaning they will pull over & let you by before you find yourself tailgating (USUALLY).

[BLyons]

I signed up for Esurance and their version of this, Drivesense. Given that they are linked with Allstate I'd imagine it's pretty similar. After hearing about Snapshot so much I was curious how these work.

Mine doesn't have grades. It measures 'risky driving incidents' in terms of hard braking or sudden acceleration. So far I have had a slightly above average number of incidents, all for hard braking. These have all been for getting caught in no man's land when the light turns yellow, so I guess I'd be better off going through on red than stopping as far as they're concerned.
Anyway, if this doesn't use GPS technology, it's damn accurate. It shows me every trip I make, including where I started and ended, which route I took, and my fastest speed during the trip. It also shows me the location where any of the incidents happened on a map.

I have no idea how it measures how long I am driving for, but it is way off. Supposedly I have driven for 21.5 hours in the past week, but in reality I would guess that is more like 4-5 hours. I suppose that might help me in terms of average speed though, since it must be about 10mph by their calculations.

I don't see myself keeping this past the term but it's an interesting experiment.

[Fritz2]

Call me paranoid, but I'm firmly in the invasion of privacy camp. No GPS on the device? Great, but the info that is going to be handed over under court order by your civic minded insurance company can certainly be used as a piece of the puzzle (case? research? refund?) along with your nav info, smart tag usage, black box, security cameras, and other things I'm sure to "gotcha". By the way, I love my insurance company.

[DesRado]

I never would even consider one of those. Mainly because I work night shift and any driving between say 10pm p.m. and 6 a.m. (just an example, forget the actual times) would result in negative feedback.

[Moto]

^^ me too and I drive across a rural state. (6 hours)

I run after market lights when I get way out in the middle of nowhere and I'll just say I make good time. They would probably stop insuring me if they saw how I drove and assumed I was doing it with stock headlamps.

** I have found it to be much safer to run the back roads with my brights and LED bar on than driving the 4 lane where I have to stay on dims all the time. I have come close to hitting deer 3 times in the last year and all of those times are when I was running on dims because of traffic.

[KuroNekko]

My point in writing this original post was to show that despite the commercials stating that these devices will reward you individually for your driving, they simply do the opposite; compare your driving to set scores of everyone else. In essence, they don't really care whether you're a safe driver yourself, but whether you drive when there are higher rates of accidents in general. This means that time of day, distances traveled, and city traffic conditions all work against you even when they are completely out of your control. In essence, it's almost impossible to get a "grade" high enough to see a discount on your insurance unless you have very flexible driving conditions.

Sorry, but I have to correct your idea of what the Autobahn is. Don't feel bad. I had imagined it to be about the same... until I drove on it last Nov. My 1st surprise is that it's not really "The Autobahn" as if there were 1 freeway going from one end of Germany to the other. It's more like our interstate freeway system. You can be on the A1, A2... A8... A<I don't know how many there are> but each is just like here where you go from one freeway to the next; I-80 to I-81 for example. Second, the speed limits change, and they change fairly often... 80km, 100, 120, no speed limit, 100, 80... you get the picture. Oh, and speaking of pictures they do have cameras set up (not too thickly deployed) and they call it "Getting Blitzed" when the flash goes off & you later find a ticket in the mail.

Next, sadly, was the amount of congestion. You have to consider population vs country size. I was the typical American car enthusiast who just couldn't wait to go full B@11z Out on the Autobahn. We rented what is pretty much an entry level Mercedes akin to the CLA 180 over here, but without all that MPG/MPH hogging smog crap. I only had 2 fairly good opportunities to fulfill my wishes. Now I have since been told that there are some segments obviously more remote than the ones I was on, but mind you, I did drive hundreds of miles in all times of the day & night from Bavaria near Austria past Frankfurt & back with several trips around Munich. 2!. 2 good chances was all. (136 mph & was probably still a couple more left in it. BTW same car different trip I was able to squeeze 48 MPG out of it!) ...and there is a lot of construction where you are stuck at 0 to 20 mph.

Finally, it keeps you on your toes trying to be a good courteous driver when in light to medium traffic in unlimited speed areas. Pass the guy going 90 cause you're clipping along at 110 then pull over for the Audi going 140. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

So in the end I'd say you are maybe 1/2 right. It is a much better comparison than you realize, but I think one of the main factors is that everyone is accustomed to high speeds and those roads are made with superior material. Very smooth & kept up. Everyone pretty much follows the rules meaning they will pull over & let you by before you find yourself tailgating (USUALLY).

My point in countering the Autobahn comparison is that it's just too different from American freeways. It may have a better safety record despite some segments having no speed limits, but the argument that speed isn't a leading cause of accidents is flawed. If one is speeding in an area with congestion and multiple intersecting roads, on-ramps, etc., (as with most freeways in populated regions of the United States) then the risk of an accident is higher. Much like someone driving 100 MPH in a rural part of Montana is safer at those speeds than someone doing that on the 405 in Los Angeles, where you drive is a big factor on what speed is safe. This is why comparisons to segments of the German Autobahn to American freeways is flawed in my opinion. Not only that, the US has way more cars in a measure of vehicles per capita. As of 2011, Germany had 588 cars for every 1000 people. The United States had 809 for every 1000. Those are drastic differences that will affect congestion in major cities and reflect on accident rates.

[Remav]

My point in countering the Autobahn comparison is that it's just too different from American freeways. It may have a better safety record despite some segments having no speed limits, but the argument that speed isn't a leading cause of accidents is flawed. If one is speeding in an area with congestion and multiple intersecting roads, on-ramps, etc., (as with most freeways in populated regions of the United States) then the risk of an accident is higher. Much like someone driving 100 MPH in a rural part of Montana is safer at those speeds than someone doing that on the 405 in Los Angeles, where you drive is a big factor on what speed is safe. This is why comparisons to segments of the German Autobahn to American freeways is flawed in my opinion. Not only that, the US has way more cars in a measure of vehicles per capita. As of 2011, Germany had 588 cars for every 1000 people. The United States had 809 for every 1000. Those are drastic differences that will affect congestion in major cities and reflect on accident rates.

Good points, but it's still not totally apples & oranges... more like Oranges & Tangerines. By my math, even adjusting for the differnce in cars/1000 people, you would have to get every single person in the US to move to Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and Utah to get to the cars/sq mile figure that you have in Germany. Strictly sticking to # of people, Germany is about the size of New Mexico & has a population of just under 85 million. So you at least have to let go of the "we have many more cars" theory. Just doesn't hold up. I'm telling you the Autobahn I drove on at 2 AM had lots of cars on it. I couldn't believe it. I think the point here is that while you cannot do anything to change the laws of physics there are lots of things you can do to make the roads safer, ...but no matter what you do they will always be safer yet at lower speeds.

Did anyone actually cite the "accidents/mile driven" difference between US & Germany? Would like to see how great a difference we are talking here.

[DesRado]

^^ me too and I drive across a rural state. (6 hours)

I run after market lights when I get way out in the middle of nowhere and I'll just say I make good time. They would probably stop insuring me if they saw how I drove and assumed I was doing it with stock headlamps.

** I have found it to be much safer to run the back roads with my brights and LED bar on than driving the 4 lane where I have to stay on dims all the time. I have come close to hitting deer 3 times in the last year and all of those times are when I was running on dims because of traffic.

Do you have pics of said LED bar. I was humoring the idea of adding a light bar on top of my Kiz and mount it in the 1st set of roof rack holes. That or I saw another member add one to the lower grill that looks to get the job done as well.

[KuroNekko]

Good points, but it's still not totally apples & oranges... more like Oranges & Tangerines. By my math, even adjusting for the differnce in cars/1000 people, you would have to get every single person in the US to move to Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and Utah to get to the cars/sq mile figure that you have in Germany. Strictly sticking to # of people, Germany is about the size of New Mexico & has a population of just under 85 million. So you at least have to let go of the "we have many more cars" theory. Just doesn't hold up. I'm telling you the Autobahn I drove on at 2 AM had lots of cars on it. I couldn't believe it. I think the point here is that while you cannot do anything to change the laws of physics there are lots of things you can do to make the roads safer, ...but no matter what you do they will always be safer yet at lower speeds.

Did anyone actually cite the "accidents/mile driven" difference between US & Germany? Would like to see how great a difference we are talking here.

The whole Autobahn comparison was started when another member much earlier in the thread claimed that speed wasn't a major contributing factor to accidents. His evidence was the Autobahn on which people drive significantly faster but has a better safety record. The reason I countered that argument is because the Autobahn isn't really comparable to American freeways for a number of reasons. Sheer population numbers and vehicles per capita are indicative of this. While Germany may seem like a populated nation with 85 (actually closer to 80) million in a country the size of New Mexico, keep in mind CA, TX, and FL together (just 3 of the 50 US states) exceed that in population numbers. More importantly, the cars per capita tell us one very important thing: Fewer Germans drive in Germany than Americans in America by percentage of drivers in the population. This is why this factor is so important. It's not very significant to say there are 85 million people in a country the size of New Mexico (to argue density) if a significant number of them don't even drive. This is very much the case with Japan; a country the size of California with about 40% of the entire US population in it.

In essence, the number of cars and percentage of drivers is important because it allows us to compare traffic density at any given time. I totally believe you that the Autobahn can be packed at times, but I'm inclined to think the areas without speed limits are through the rural areas without much population density, therefore congestion. That's then like saying it's safer to go 100 MPH through a rural part of Montana than Los Angeles which is obvious. The entire state of Montana has about 1/4 the population of just the city of Los Angeles alone. What I'm basically saying is that Germany and the US are so different in many factors that comparisons are hard to make.

I don't contest that there are other factors that make the Autobahn safer than American freeways, but I think it's incontrovertible that one's speed has a significant correlation with the likelihood of an accident especially when American roadways are generally more congested where people actually live and drive.

[Fritz2]

I'll back up Remav- the autobahn is packed all the time. Even rural areas. There aren't as many no speed limit zones as you'd think, either. Another thing, getting a driver's license is much more complicated, and you have to be older( theoretically more mature) than in America. As a side note, when I was in Austria, there were licensed, street legal ATV's and they didn't differ in any discernable way from what we can buy for offroading here.