Suzuki examining cvt alternatives

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Kelevra
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:12 pm
Location: Alaska

Woodie wrote:
Kelevra wrote:I don't get all the anti-cvt sentiment.
If your car only has the cvt and no paddle shifters, then I understand.
My SLS with the paddles works great!
You should try a manual. More power, better mileage, lighter, more reliable, better control over the car.
I've driven manual transmission cars all my life. I live in NY, so I wanted the AWD for the occasional bad winters here. Few car mfgrs come with a manual and AWD, and for 2013, the manual was only available in the base S (AFAIK), model FWD which lacked all the nice amenities of the SLS.
bootymac
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I've always been a manual driver and I find the CVT better than other automatics, aside from dual clutch transmissions of course. I'm curious of Suzuki revised the later models as I don't experience any of the issues that journalists described.

Having said that, the reliability is still worrisome
KansasKid
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:19 am
Location: Kansas City, Kansas

KuroNekko wrote:I'm still not convinced they rival a real manual transmission in terms of performance.
I recall reading one professional automotive reviewer who test drove both the CVT and the MT Kizashi. He described the difference in the driving performance as the MT feeling like it had 50 more horsepower. That's a huge difference. I wouldn't call it preposterous given the MT Kizashi has a 0 to 60 time about 1.5 to 2 seconds faster than an AWD CVT model. That's also a huge difference.
Part of the issue for this is that in a manual, you can hold the engine at the optimal RPM's prior to launch right? I remember reading in the manual that they discourage pedal-to-the-medal launches in the CVT models. I've tried it a couple times and it's pretty disappointing. One thing I've never tried is revving up the engine in neutral, and then popping it into gear. Mostly because I'm worried that trying that with the AWD models is going to make the transmission simultaneously implode and explode, violently.
My Cars (Their Names)
'93 Ford Escort (Jorge - Prior)
'06 Kia Optima EX (Sakuya - Prior)
'11 Suzuki Kizashi SE AWD (Azumi)
'09 Subaru Impreza 2.5i Base 5MT(Akari - Prior)
'11 Chevy Cruze Eco 6MT (Erika - Prior)
'12 Suzuki Kizashi Sport SLS AWD (Kitsune)
bootymac
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Here's another consideration. Unless you're launching your manual car at every red light, an automatic will accelerate to speed quicker (0-60 times be damned). Makes a big difference in city driving
Kelevra
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:12 pm
Location: Alaska

What interval are you people changing your CVT fluid?
paininthenuts
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 4:38 pm

KuroNekko wrote:It would be nice if Suzuki moved away from CVTs. I think I may have posted on this some time ago, but Audi is moving away from CVTs and looking to DCTs as their automatics.

I just think CVTs were something implemented more for automakers to meet fuel economy standards. They trumpet characteristics like smooth shifting and better fuel economy, but I just think they aren't suitable in cars bigger than a little compact.

Given the number of issues CVTs have brought across different brands, I think these transmissions need to disappear from cars weighing more than 2700 lbs. They are parasites to performance and don't really belong in a car like the Kizashi which Suzuki claims is a "sports sedan".
Disagree, and hope I don't get banned for doing so. I have driven and owned many autos over the years, and the CVT in the kizi is by far the best box I have driven. I love the kizi, albeit I have complaints, butbthe gearbox really isn't one of them
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johnhenrydale
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Location: Miami Beach, FL

I am now one of the few (only ?) people in this forum who have both a CVT and Manual Kizashi. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Honestly, to me, the manual does not feel like it has 50 more HP than the CVT. 1st and 2nd gear wind up the engine QUICK with not THAT much actual speed. I really have to stomp it and drive the manual HARD if I want to accelerate at anything approaching what could be considered "sportscars-like" performance levels. The manual definitely "feels" more sporty than the CVT because the fact is that ANY manual car will feel more sporty than a CVT automatic. But It doesn't, at least to me, feel 50HP more powerful than the CVT - maybe like 15 or 20HP more. When I'm driving the CVT and I need quick highway acceleration, I definitely go for the paddle shifters. They just just get me to higher RPMs quicker than waiting for the CVT to wind all the way up to where it needs to get. They also work great when I need to shed speed quicker. The CVT is DEFINITELY the better city car, although I'm starting to get used to the driving the manual in city traffic after a month of owning it. The CVT car has 27k on it, so I have had zero issues so far. That said, I don't drive it that hard. I do regularly get both cars up to 90mph on the highway and they both feel very solid at speed. I prefer the CVT for long highway trips because it revs lower at higher speeds. Even using the paddle shifters or the "tiptronic" gear shifter option on the SLS, the manual KILLS the CVT for pure driving pleasure on twisty and hilly roads.

The RF stereo in the GTS also blows away the stock stereo on my SLS. no comparison. I feel sportier and have a little more fun driving the manual around town, but the leather and CVT in the SLS make me feel richer and more refined. People definitely comment more on the Platinum silver SLS paint than the Grazy Azure paint on the 6MT. That platinum silver paint is, in my opinion, the best looking paint color because it the light reflection shows the gorgeous curves of the car the best. off topic, i know. But whatever. That's my 2 cents on SLS CVt vs Manual GTS.
2011 Kizashi Sport "GLS" 2WD
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
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Woodie
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johnhenrydale wrote:the manual does not feel like it has 50 more HP than the CVT. 1st and 2nd gear wind up the engine QUICK with not THAT much actual speed.
It's 5 more horsepower, not 50.

And I agree, the final drive ratio chosen is too high numerically. First gear winds out so quickly that it's almost useless, and then at highway speeds there's substantially more rpm than the CVT has. I'd love to have taller gears, or spread them out more, I often only use three of them.
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KuroNekko
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paininthenuts wrote: Disagree, and hope I don't get banned for doing so. I have driven and owned many autos over the years, and the CVT in the kizi is by far the best box I have driven. I love the kizi, albeit I have complaints, butbthe gearbox really isn't one of them
I don't ban people for having a different opinion. I'm glad the CVT serves you well but many reviews by people who drive all sorts of cars, especially segment rivals, say the CVT is ill-fitting for an otherwise sporty 4 door family sedan. However, that's just someone's opinion.

@johnhenrydale
Thanks for the comparison. I think the "50 HP more" figure came from a review I read from an auto journalist who drove the CVT version and then the 6MT some time later. As Woody stated, the only actual difference in power is a measly 5 HP that the manuals have over the CVTs.

Also, try turning off the Traction Control and then launch your GTS as the engine was revved a bit. You'll get an experience your SLS probably can't deliver.
;)
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
KansasKid
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:19 am
Location: Kansas City, Kansas

The 6MT Kizashi S that I test drove a short time ago did seem to have substantially more "get up an go" than the AWD SE that I currently own. During the test I took it on the highway, and I was only about 50-75% throttle and was going 80 mph by the time I got to the bottom of the entry ramp. If I was in my Kizashi, I would have to have the petal to the floor as soon as I hit the apex of the turn in order to get close to that and even I would only be going about 70-75 mph, tops.

It also seemed like you could feel a lot more of the torque in the 6MT all the way up to 5th gear. In my CVT Kizashi, I don't really get the good acceleration feeling at full throttle in 4th or 5th gear like I did NOT at full throttle in the 6MT.

I'll try and re-drive that entry ramp in Azumi so I can get a bit better comparison.

Other than the power difference, I do like the CVT overall, and I think where it really shines is while driving in the snow. The CVT which tries to supply the optimal power to the tires works in tandem with the AWD to dynamically adjust up to 100% of the power to the rear-wheels on the fly. This makes the Kizashi crazy fun to drive in the snow as long as you turn off the TCS. I would suggest only drifting at low speeds though. My Kizashi tends to understeer when its dry and building up just a little bit too much speed when entering a turn in the snow made the understeer 10 times worse for me. The handful of times that I got into trouble in the snow/ice was on the OEM Dunlop tires which are all-seasons and not that great in the snow at all. If you have snow or all-weather tires like some of the other members of the forums do, you'll probably far substantially better. Or so I've heard.
My Cars (Their Names)
'93 Ford Escort (Jorge - Prior)
'06 Kia Optima EX (Sakuya - Prior)
'11 Suzuki Kizashi SE AWD (Azumi)
'09 Subaru Impreza 2.5i Base 5MT(Akari - Prior)
'11 Chevy Cruze Eco 6MT (Erika - Prior)
'12 Suzuki Kizashi Sport SLS AWD (Kitsune)
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