Thinking about getting a new car. What to get...

[KuroNekko]

Glad you brought up skid plates on a Subaru. I have them!

I actually used to offroad my Impreza because I couldn't get it out of my system even after my brother took the Suzuki Sidekick to college.
One day, I hit a rock and cracked my oil pan. Yeah, that's what you get for offroading a car with not much ground clearance.
My answer? A new oil pan and a Primitive Racing full front skid plate. 3/16 inches of aluminum armor, baby! I also got a rear differential skid plate.
After that, the car went over anything. Kekeke.
They also make a 1/8 inch so it's lighter and better for racing. I'm no racer so I opted for the maximum protection.

Though I no longer have my Impreza, I still have the plates. The engine skid plate is in CA while the rear diff is here in MD.

I got them online from a shop that makes rally components. They make skid plates for most Subarus and other cars too including the SX4.
Here's the site:
http://www.writerguy.com/primitive/skid.htm

I agree that Subarus are great in the snow. I used to fare better than large SUVs and trucks thanks to the superior AWD system and the better weight distribution. People who drive F250s thinking they are invincible in the snow learn the hard way. Smaller, lighter vehicles with better weight distribution are superior in the snow. Thinner tires do better in the snow; a secret known in winter rally racing.
In the end, the only thing that stops a Subaru in the snow is the ground clearance.

[murcod]

Low weight would be a huge advantage with a Forested vs a "proper" 4wd. That alone might make a big difference. Tyres, like you said, do make a huge difference- along with picking the right line in any difficult sections.

[KuroNekko]

The Cherokee Trailhawk looks very promising. I know a lot of people trash-talked the new Cherokee for the styling and the name it took on however, I think the styling is rather cool. Yes, it's not exactly beautiful, but Jeeps aren't in general. I'd say the current GC is the only good looking Jeep ever.

What really appeals is the new territory that this Cherokee treads into.
The Cherokee Trailhawk is very impressive offroad while still delivering the benefit that CUVs offer in terms of on-road comfort and fuel economy. It's like the two worlds are finally merging with this car. I'm rather excited personally because I love offroading, but I'm stingy about operating costs. I won't drive something that guzzles more fuel than it should. I also don't want a lame-handling car that's uncomfortable on the paved road.
While the Wrangler is the offroad king in the Jeep line up, this new Cherokee is really attractive to me because of the abilities it offers both on and off the road. The Wrangler is notorious for being a poor car on the paved road in many ways.

The only thing I'm rather apprehensive about is the reliability of this new Jeep. Jeeps tend to be rather poor in reliability and build quality. This new Cherokee uses the Dodge Dart's frame and is an all new car so it's in uncharted territory in terms of reliability and durability. I'd probably see how it does in its first few model years and then if it's good, pick one up as a used vehicle.

Here are some rather interesting videos on it:
[youtube][/youtube]


Here's a video of the non-Trailhawk Cherokee which focuses on on-road performance:
[youtube][/youtube]

[sx4rocious]

^^My LORD that thing is UgLy!!!^^

Anyway, call me crazy, but I want to throw a suggestion out there that just might shock you a bit, and the only real downfall I can think of is the "driving it to an oil rig" issue you spoke of before. Before I give you my suggestion, let me tell you why I suggest it. (so you continue to read and don't laugh at me and move on)

I haven't driven this CUV myself, but I have had a minivan with the 3.5L engine that is offered in it and put 75K on it in just over 3 years (it had a total of 145K on it when I sold it) and the only problems I have had with it were a bad idle puley, (replaced in the driveway in about 20 minutes) a bad alternator, (ok, so that one was a PITA) and a few non-engine issues that didn't amount to anything major. I also have a guy that works for me that has bought one for his wife and they actually fight over who gets to drive it. It's extremely comfortable, safe, great in the snow (he says that even the 2WD version he has did great in a recent snow storm we had that dumped 11 inches in one night.) good looking, powerful, and has an incredible warranty all for under $28K well equipped.

Are you ready? No laughing now!! Promise?

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest a Kia Sportage.....

The new ones look great and if you aren't offroading for fun or anything, they actually have a decent 4WD system for snow and ice. The INT is WAAAAAAY better equipped and made than anything American I have come accross, and you can actually find a newish on cheaper than the Subaru. You might actually be surprised by the quality in a Kia made after about 2006 or so. You also can't go wrong with a 100K warranty for all the driving you're planning on doing. The most important thing about it is the reliability. Hyundai has surpassed just about everyone but Toyota around here when it comes to reliability and you'll pay less than half the $$$.

Other suggestions you may not have thought of: Suzuki SX4 (had to throw that one in there ) the Buick Enclave (looks really cool and from what I've heard, it's AWD is awesome, and there's actually pretty good clearence) Hyundai Sante Fe (same thing as the Sportage, but more $$$), Volvo XC60\70\90, and the Nissan Pathfinder.

[Woodie]

The only thing I'm rather apprehensive about is the reliability of this new Jeep. Jeeps tend to be rather poor in reliability and build quality. This new Cherokee uses the Dodge Dart's frame and is an all new car so it's in uncharted territory in terms of reliability and durability. I'd probably see how it does in its first few model years and then if it's good, pick one up as a used vehicle.

If this Jeep is actually a Dart, then it's actually an Alfa Romeo, which means it's actually a Fiat.

[SamirD]

^^My LORD that thing is UgLy!!!^^

Anyway, call me crazy, but I want to throw a suggestion out there that just might shock you a bit, and the only real downfall I can think of is the "driving it to an oil rig" issue you spoke of before. Before I give you my suggestion, let me tell you why I suggest it. (so you continue to read and don't laugh at me and move on)

I haven't driven this CUV myself, but I have had a minivan with the 3.5L engine that is offered in it and put 75K on it in just over 3 years (it had a total of 145K on it when I sold it) and the only problems I have had with it were a bad idle puley, (replaced in the driveway in about 20 minutes) a bad alternator, (ok, so that one was a PITA) and a few non-engine issues that didn't amount to anything major. I also have a guy that works for me that has bought one for his wife and they actually fight over who gets to drive it. It's extremely comfortable, safe, great in the snow (he says that even the 2WD version he has did great in a recent snow storm we had that dumped 11 inches in one night.) good looking, powerful, and has an incredible warranty all for under $28K well equipped.

Are you ready? No laughing now!! Promise?

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest a Kia Sportage.....

The new ones look great and if you aren't offroading for fun or anything, they actually have a decent 4WD system for snow and ice. The INT is WAAAAAAY better equipped and made than anything American I have come accross, and you can actually find a newish on cheaper than the Subaru. You might actually be surprised by the quality in a Kia made after about 2006 or so. You also can't go wrong with a 100K warranty for all the driving you're planning on doing. The most important thing about it is the reliability. Hyundai has surpassed just about everyone but Toyota around here when it comes to reliability and you'll pay less than half the $$$.

Other suggestions you may not have thought of: Suzuki SX4 (had to throw that one in there ) the Buick Enclave (looks really cool and from what I've heard, it's AWD is awesome, and there's actually pretty good clearence) Hyundai Sante Fe (same thing as the Sportage, but more $$$), Volvo XC60\70\90, and the Nissan Pathfinder.

Those awd minivans are no joke. Quite nice with some decent capability. But if Moto has to go off the beaten path, it might get stuck. That's where the Sportage or some of the other great suggestions like the sx4 Crossover might be a win. I forgot about the Crossover--those are pretty awesome, and cheap! I saw some local listings for them with under 100k for under $8k. Lots of bang for the buck.

[KuroNekko]

The only thing I'm rather apprehensive about is the reliability of this new Jeep. Jeeps tend to be rather poor in reliability and build quality. This new Cherokee uses the Dodge Dart's frame and is an all new car so it's in uncharted territory in terms of reliability and durability. I'd probably see how it does in its first few model years and then if it's good, pick one up as a used vehicle.

If this Jeep is actually a Dart, then it's actually an Alfa Romeo, which means it's actually a Fiat.

Right. The Dart's chassis is a modified version of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta which is produced by FIAT. FIAT now has controlling stake over Chrysler. While FIAT has a rather poor reputation for reliability themselves, they seem to be improving Chrysler.
Time will tell us for sure.

[KuroNekko]

The Kia Sportage and its sibling the Hyundai Tucson are not bad cars... now. I was actually looking at them when I helped my co-worker find a compact CUV.
However, I'd say that the only ones worth getting are the new ones that were redesigned in that last few years.

Also, Korean cars are not yet up there with the Japanese in reliability. Hyundais actually have about average reliability according to Consumer Reports. While some are indeed pretty good, they don't have better reliability than Mazda, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Subaru, or Honda. I practically named all the Japanese brands save for Nissan. Nissan has a few problematic models, but some have excellent reliability.

Also, I found that due to Hyundai and Kia's recent surge in popularity, their prices are no longer very competitive as they used to be years ago. Hyundai (who has controlling stake over Kia) really turned things around a few years ago when they hired a former executive from Audi and redesigned their cars.
However, the driving dynamics are not that impressive. I have read reviews and even comments here that cars like the Sonata and Optima aren't that fun to drive.
I've rented a Hyundai Santa Fe a few years ago and wasn't that impressed. My sister-in-law has a Kia Sorento and while the fit and finish is good, it's ride quality is rather rough.

While Hyundai and Kia are no longer the very cheap, miserable-looking, low quality cars they used to be years ago, I still say they have some catching up to do. The only ones that impress me are their higher scale cars like the Azera, Genesis, and Equus.

I agree that the Suzuki SX4 would be a great value since it's a capable car. The Santa Fe is not a Sportage sibling, but actually a bigger class car. The Kia Sorento is related to the Hyundai Santa Fe. The Hyundai Tucson is the actual sibling to the Kia Sportage.

The Volvos have excellent safety but poor reliability. Newer Volvo are not much like the old ones from the 70's, 80's and 90's. Their reliability and durability have gone down significantly since their Ford ownership and even now.

Lastly, the Nissan Pathfinder. If it's the older real SUV, then it's a safe choice. The new CUV is a disaster. It has some serious transmission issues since going to a CVT. The problem appears to be that the CVT fails due to it being in a larger car than it can properly handle. I know someone with one and it needs a new transmission after 4000 miles. You read that right. However, Nissan is not being very cooperative. Do a search and you'll see that this new Pathfinder has serious transmission issues. I truly believe CVTs should not be in cars larger than midsize sedans.
Brands like Jeep going with transmissions with more gears is the better way to go for a car like this, in my opinion.

[SamirD]

Also, Korean cars are not yet up there with the Japanese in reliability. Hyundais actually have about average reliability according to Consumer Reports. While some are indeed pretty good, they don't have better reliability than Mazda, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Subaru, or Honda. I practically named all the Japanese brands save for Nissan. Nissan has a few problematic models, but some have excellent reliability.

I think this statistic will change once this decade is over. For many years now, the Japanese makers have been relying on the strong reputation of their cars from the late 1990s and early 2000s that are still on the road, but their quality has been slipping since 1993. Each year has brought on new quality cuts that is very apparent if you see a car from that era vs today. As the Korean makers continue to improve their quality and the Japanese continue to reduce, I think the difference between these two will become non-existant.

And let's not leave out Ford who has made some real strides to compete in quality with the Japanese. The design however, defininitely isn't my cup of tea.

It's interesting to note that the build quality of Korean cars in Korea is at Japanese levels. In fact, most of their goods are. I saw all this firsthand when LG sent me to Seoul. It's amazing how high quality everything was--you'd swear it was Japanese if you didn't know it was Korean.

I think the Korean makers save their best for their domestic market, and places like the US where people don't care as much about quality get the equivalent of what would be 'second rate' in the domestic market. Even Ford's products in the UK stomp ours in the US. We get a lot of garbage here in the US when you compare it to the other world markets.

[KuroNekko]

The Japanese aren't slipping. They are simply building more in the US. The quality of US-built cars and their parts suppliers are good, but not Made in Japan good. I'm rather particular about this so I like my Japanese cars made in Japan. It's actually one of the aspects about the Kizashi that attracted me to it. Many rivals in its class are made in the US.

While I believe that Koreans cars are getting better, I still think they need a ways to go. Don't mistake initial quality with long term durability. I mean, have you heard of Hyundais with 250,000 miles yet? Not very much. You barely see any Korean cars on the road that are older than 10 years old. Yet, it's not hard to find late 90's/early 2000's Toyota Camrys with 230,000 miles owned by girls with no idea how to fill oil in an engine.

While I agree that many products in the US are not as good as their foreign counterparts, I'd disagree that Americans don't care. They do. That's why so many gravitated to foreign brands. While some Americans prefer domestics, many want the best for their hard-earned money, regardless of who makes it. The Japanese have been the best at offering quality cars for a good value for decades.
Even today, the best selling midsize and compacts are Japanese brands.
Domestics do offer quality, but they focused it on very specific segments like full size trucks for a long time and neglected others like compacts and midsizes. They are now finally investing money into developing competitive cars and people are taking notice.