CVT Transmission starting to fail

[murcod]

The lack of CVT oil changes and "sealed for life" transmissions has been brought up on here somewhere previously.

Anyone planning on keeping a CVT past the warranty period would be crazy not to change the fluid regularly IMHO. Same with any automatic trans really, but perhaps the CVT's run the fluid hotter?

[Ronzuki]

Yeah the manual has no service interval for fluid replacement. I've brought this up before asking if there were any cons to doing a complete fluid swap via a push/pull "flush" system, replacing 100% of the fluid including the large amount held in the torque converter. I've learned there is a replaceable filter in the CVT, there's a fill-tube w/ dip stick....so I'm confused why no service interval recommendation other than they want it dead after the 100k mile warranty is up. My suspicion is that contamination is a big fear/problem with a CVT and they don't want to risk it while they're under warranty. If it was truly sealed for life then why, in this cost cutting, eliminate every un-needed item out of the cost of the car world, are these items included? I believe the whole CVT thing is a giant experiment including the high end fluid in it....they really don't know how long the package is going to last. They replace enough transmissions and then a service bulletin will be issued to change what is currently published. I've come to the conclusion that at around 50-60k I'm going to start a drain and fill regiment. I'll do it myself and ensure cleanliness. I'm a fan of flushing, but they won't have a supply bottle dedicated to our particular CVT fluid, and, they certainly won't waste any of the expensive fluid flushing the equipment before connecting it to my CVT. Next time down to the dealer I'm going to pick up a pan gasket and the filter (they had them in stock last time I was there).

[SamirD]

I'd love to know more about your experience with the CVT fluid change Ronzuki. You're absolutely right about the fill and dipstick--why would they be there?

Most of my automatics only drain a percentage of the fluid at each change, so it takes a few changes to get completely new fluid in there, but I've found it's not that hard to do and eases the fluid change on the transmission itself. Going from crude oil black to completely fresh fluid would probably have some issues in an older transmission as the dirt particles found themselves in unfamiliar places.

Have you considered using a high performance fluid? Does Suzuki even sell a CVT fluid for the Kizashi?

[Ronzuki]

The varnish that forms on the metal from heat related fluid breakdown is what typically kills a conventional auto other than mechanical abuse (neutral slams and other forms of shift shock). The only way to get rid of it is to dissolve it chemically and flush it out which is what a proper flush does.

As far as my CVT fluid change experience goes....I'm only at about 40,000 miles, so it won't be until fall of this year, or later, that I'll actually do anything. Yes, you can buy Suzuki CVT fluid and it is high performance (least that what it says on the bottle's label). There's only one other brand recommended and I'm sure that's who manufactures it for Suzuki/Jatco. I bought a bottle a while ago to have on hand, just in case, for both our SX4 and the Kiz. There's not much in a bottle (32 oz.) and it was just shy of $20 at the dealer if I recall. I also have a jug of Suzuki's blue extended life anit-freeze that's the same in both cars. I'll pick up another bottle or two of CVT fluid when I get the gasket and filter. I'll need to figure out how much volume a drain only will be.

[murcod]

Shell make the other recommended fluid, I came across it when looking up the other CVT info.

SUZUKI CVT FLUID GREEN 1 or Shell GREEN-1 V

Total capacity is 8.3 litres. There is a fluid change procedure in the manual- nothing complex, just drain and refill. It doesn't give an estimate on how much fluid will be drained using this method.

[Ronzuki]

Thanks for posting all that again Murcod...I have it written down on the trans fluid level check procedure I had printed from the FSM which I've misplaced somewhere.

OK, that's a total 281 ounces, nearly (9) 32 ounce bottles. About half that remains in the converter, based on my past experiences w/ conventional autos, so I'll need to get 4 more bottles to be on the safe side (cha-ching) and have some leftover. So a 50-60k drain and fill w/ filter replacement is going to be around $160 or so in material alone.

[murcod]

Surely you can buy it in bulk eg. a 4 litre container?

PS: Apparently other oils match those specs see below:
http://www.motul.com/system/product_des ... 1358263035
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/cvt_fluid.pdf
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=128&pcid=9

Here you go http://www.summitracing.com/search/prod ... ission-oil

[SamirD]

Thank you both for all the great info! Personally, I'd stick with the Suzuki fluid since it seems to be high quality no matter what it is--coolant, engine, oil, etc.--unless there's an ultra strong extended life product out there that exceeds Suzuki's own fluid.

If the CVT has a torque converter (do they?), then you'll probably have to do the get half, get half of the remaining half (1/4), then another half of the remaining half (1/8), until you're fully fresh. Unless you go with a full flush, but then that introduces air as well as the potential for loose particles to end up somewhere else.

If it's easy enough to get a fluid sample, I'd just check it. You may not want to wait until 50, or may go waaay beyond it based on what you see.

[Ronzuki]

I plan on keeping the car until it dies, so in light of no recommended change interval, 50k is as good a number as any. I'm going to stick w/ what Suzuki recommends and what it's currently filled w/ so I don't get into any mixing of different fluids issues since I want that 100k warranty for the full 100k. Once I drop the pan to replace the filter, that will require replacing that amount of fluid and that's all I'm doing. A 50% dillusion at 50k has to be better than doing nothing. I'll see what it looks and feels like then compared to the same, new, fluid. Fluid analysis...hmmm what data would I compare it to? There's always acceptable and prescribed limits of various 'stuff' in the fluids (oil, trans fluids, etc.) under normal operating conditions. I don't know what any of the internals of the trans are actually made from, so, finding out there's x amount of y metal (or whatever) in the fluid will mean very little to me. I can always keep the filter I remove and a sample of what I drain out for future analysis.

[SamirD]

I agree with you on the 50% for sure. And I think the best way to know if there's any difference is to put a quart of the old fluid in a bottle and let it sit. Compare this to new fluid. Then drain the bottle and check for particles.

I've used Blackstone labs for various analysis and they didn't catch a bearing going bad in one of my engines. Worthless analysis if they couldn't pick that up.