Fuel additives?

[krell]

Been using MMO for the last 25 years for the same reason Kuro explain why he use seafoam.. the motor much quieter and not as noisy like a damn diesel generator .

[krell]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... em-Cleaner

USE WITH CAUTION!!! Gumout Regane Complete : Fuel System Cleaner

I want to share my experience using this product with everyone in hopes this doesn’t happen to you… and to be a bit more informed and aware.

First of all, my car didn’t pass emissions, so I began to narrow down the problem and eliminate all the possibilities…. Spark Plugs, Air Filter, Oil and Filter… check all the hoses, searched for vacuum leaks, check coils, using high/premium fuel only… After I did this, I decided to use Gumout. I had never used this product before, so I decided to give it a try. I’ve heard from various people saying stuff like this works wonders, “on some level” (Gumout, Lucas, Seafoam, STP, etc…)

The description on the bottle seems promising:

Cleans the ENTIRE fuel system
Maximizes fuel economy
Prevents future deposit buildup
Restores lost horsepower
Cleans gasoline direct injection (GDI) systems too
Fights damaging effects of ethanol up to 15%
Removes water from gasoline
Safe for use in turbo & supercharged vehicles
Helps reduce emissions
Will not void OEM/manufacturer's warranty


I followed the instructions as stated; add to an empty tank and fill it up with gas.

Here’s where things got interesting. Halfway on my drive to work (about 12 miles on the freeway) my car began to loose power. No matter how much gas I gave her, she wouldn’t get pass 40-45mph and began dropping. I managed to exit the freeway (the traffic light was green). While crossing the intersection, as I pulled over, my car died but not before releasing a puff of smoke through the exhaust.

I waited a few seconds before I tried to start up my car, which it did, but now with a big problem. The engine was really shaky, jumpy and jittery. The CEL came on and the RPM’s were going crazy (200 to 2000 up and down, bouncing constantly). I manage to drive around for a few minutes but not getting very far. I did a stomp test and I got the 1216 code: Throttle Positioning Sensor. I managed to get one and changed it out and the code disappeared. I started up my car and the CEL came on after I drove a few blocks (while it released smoke like crazy).

The CEL revealed a totally new code, 1215: Mass Airflow Sensor!!! After that, my car wouldn’t start. I had to get it towed. What ever is in Gumout and cleaners like this, is strong… some more than others. The bottle stated: Cleans the ENTIRE fuel system. Well, all the dirt and build-up in the fuel lines and tank has to go somewhere. Clogged fuel injectors, fuel filter, lines? I replaced the fuel filter, and pumped out the gas and replace it with untreated gas (gumout), which helped a lot. My engine wouldn’t die and the RPM was a bit more adjusted and wouldn’t bounce a much (600-1400). I cleaned the MAF with MAF Cleaner, pins, connector and nothing…. then with the engine running, I unplugged it and let the engine idle for a few seconds and to my surprise the engine adjusted itself (Safe Mode???). I plugged it back in and it went bad again. This let me to determined 100% my MAF was toast, so I replaced that too.


The CEL is off and my RPM is restored to 700+/- and no more smoke and the engine was back to normal. I drove it a few miles and no more problems. I’m not sure what caused the MAF sensor to go bad. At the moment it remains undetermined… no broken wire.

What I can take from this is to watch the amount of “Cleaner” that goes into the gas tank, that's if you have never used it before… maybe 1/3 of the bottle? I’ve read on a different forum of similar symptoms and a MAF going bad after using Seafoam.

I’m just hoping someone out there can shine some insight on why this happens.

[KuroNekko]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... em-Cleaner

USE WITH CAUTION!!! Gumout Regane Complete : Fuel System Cleaner

I want to share my experience using this product with everyone in hopes this doesn’t happen to you… and to be a bit more informed and aware.

First of all, my car didn’t pass emissions, so I began to narrow down the problem and eliminate all the possibilities…. Spark Plugs, Air Filter, Oil and Filter… check all the hoses, searched for vacuum leaks, check coils, using high/premium fuel only… After I did this, I decided to use Gumout. I had never used this product before, so I decided to give it a try. I’ve heard from various people saying stuff like this works wonders, “on some level” (Gumout, Lucas, Seafoam, STP, etc…)

The description on the bottle seems promising:

Cleans the ENTIRE fuel system
Maximizes fuel economy
Prevents future deposit buildup
Restores lost horsepower
Cleans gasoline direct injection (GDI) systems too
Fights damaging effects of ethanol up to 15%
Removes water from gasoline
Safe for use in turbo & supercharged vehicles
Helps reduce emissions
Will not void OEM/manufacturer's warranty


I followed the instructions as stated; add to an empty tank and fill it up with gas.

Here’s where things got interesting. Halfway on my drive to work (about 12 miles on the freeway) my car began to loose power. No matter how much gas I gave her, she wouldn’t get pass 40-45mph and began dropping. I managed to exit the freeway (the traffic light was green). While crossing the intersection, as I pulled over, my car died but not before releasing a puff of smoke through the exhaust.

I waited a few seconds before I tried to start up my car, which it did, but now with a big problem. The engine was really shaky, jumpy and jittery. The CEL came on and the RPM’s were going crazy (200 to 2000 up and down, bouncing constantly). I manage to drive around for a few minutes but not getting very far. I did a stomp test and I got the 1216 code: Throttle Positioning Sensor. I managed to get one and changed it out and the code disappeared. I started up my car and the CEL came on after I drove a few blocks (while it released smoke like crazy).

The CEL revealed a totally new code, 1215: Mass Airflow Sensor!!! After that, my car wouldn’t start. I had to get it towed. What ever is in Gumout and cleaners like this, is strong… some more than others. The bottle stated: Cleans the ENTIRE fuel system. Well, all the dirt and build-up in the fuel lines and tank has to go somewhere. Clogged fuel injectors, fuel filter, lines? I replaced the fuel filter, and pumped out the gas and replace it with untreated gas (gumout), which helped a lot. My engine wouldn’t die and the RPM was a bit more adjusted and wouldn’t bounce a much (600-1400). I cleaned the MAF with MAF Cleaner, pins, connector and nothing…. then with the engine running, I unplugged it and let the engine idle for a few seconds and to my surprise the engine adjusted itself (Safe Mode???). I plugged it back in and it went bad again. This let me to determined 100% my MAF was toast, so I replaced that too.


The CEL is off and my RPM is restored to 700+/- and no more smoke and the engine was back to normal. I drove it a few miles and no more problems. I’m not sure what caused the MAF sensor to go bad. At the moment it remains undetermined… no broken wire.

What I can take from this is to watch the amount of “Cleaner” that goes into the gas tank, that's if you have never used it before… maybe 1/3 of the bottle? I’ve read on a different forum of similar symptoms and a MAF going bad after using Seafoam.

I’m just hoping someone out there can shine some insight on why this happens.

I'd say it's impossible for a fuel cleaner added to the gas tank to ruin a MAF. A MAF is a sensor located directly after the air filter in the air intake hose and is in no way physically connected to the fuel system.

I think the real culprit here was that the additive cleaned his system too well and dislodged gunk that jammed up his fuel filter. The MAF error/failure may have resulted from the combustion issues that the clogged fuel system brought on, but honestly, I would have just disconnected the battery first and reconnected it to clear CELs than junk the MAF.

Sounds like his fuel system was very dirty.... and kind of a reason why regular use of fuel system cleaners is beneficial so things don't build up like that in the first place.
I'd say that if you think your fuel or oil system needs a good flush, install a new filter first. This is what Auto-RX recommends you do when you flush your engine of sludge via their oil additive.

[bootymac]

How the hell does a fuel additive screw up a TPS and MAF sensor?

[KuroNekko]

How the hell does a fuel additive screw up a TPS and MAF sensor?

Agreed. I'm thinking the only sensor it can damage is the oxygen sensor, but most of these products are listed as oxygen sensor-safe.

[Woodie]

First of all, my car didn’t pass emissions, so I began to narrow down the problem and eliminate all the possibilities…. Spark Plugs, Air Filter, Oil and Filter… check all the hoses, searched for vacuum leaks, check coils, using high/premium fuel only… After I did this, I decided to use Gumout. I had never used this product before, so I decided to give it a try. I’ve heard from various people saying stuff like this works wonders, “on some level” (Gumout, Lucas, Seafoam, STP, etc…)

"Premium" fuel is inferior to regular and will increase unburned hydrocarbons. I don't believe the Gumout ruined the MAP sensor here. Could be stone co-incidence.

That being said, I don't believe in additives, I think they're all snake oil. A bottle of Techron every 30K miles is probably a good idea, but anything added to your oil or gear lube is a VERY BAD idea.

Use quality oil, filter, and gas. That's all you need.

[redmed]

I agree with Woodie. I have caused myself problems by using chemicals (additives) to clean the fuel and cooling systems. So far I have not found a "fix in a bottle" if anything the opposite is true. The loose crud these chemicals release clog things and create problems.

[bootymac]

I agree with Woodie. I have caused myself problems by using chemicals (additives) to clean the fuel and cooling systems. So far I have not found a "fix in a bottle" if anything the opposite is true. The loose crud these chemicals release clog things and create problems.

Which ones caused issues? And what were the problems? So we know what to avoid

[KuroNekko]

I agree with Woodie. I have caused myself problems by using chemicals (additives) to clean the fuel and cooling systems. So far I have not found a "fix in a bottle" if anything the opposite is true. The loose crud these chemicals release clog things and create problems.

I agree about motor oil and transmission fluid additives, generally. I avoid them. I don't use coolant additives, but when flushing, I use a cleaner in the water.
I use Seafoam at every oil change for the fuel system. I pour a can in and then fill up with gas. I've been doing it for years and have had solid engine performance in every car I've done it in.

About oil additives: I'd avoid most, but there is one that is (or at least was) very reputable on BITOG years ago called Auto-RX. It's an oil additive that flushes your engine of sludge and build up. Engine rebuilds post-treatment have proved it works well. I've used it twice in my Impreza after it had 150,000+ miles and it quieted some valve-related noises. I wouldn't call Auto-RX "snake oil" given the fact that it's been proven to work over and over again.
http://www.auto-rx.com/

That being said, I no longer drive a car with high mileage as a daily driver. My Kizashi has 29,000 miles and I've owned it since 7,500 miles. I've been using synthetic motor oil which I hope will keep the engine cleaner internally in the long run so treatments like Auto-RX won't be necessary.

[redmed]

I agree with Woodie. I have caused myself problems by using chemicals (additives) to clean the fuel and cooling systems. So far I have not found a "fix in a bottle" if anything the opposite is true. The loose crud these chemicals release clog things and create problems.

Which ones caused issues? And what were the problems? So we know what to avoid

I used a radiator flush as preventive maintenance and ended up with a clogged radiator that I had to replace. I didn't know about power radiator flushes. Did not know a place that does it and still don't.

A coworker friend was in the parking lot spraying some carburetor cleaner in his 340 Plymouth Duster. Told me he does it all the time, especially before a race, so we sprayed some carburetor cleaner in the carb of my Olds 442 and almost immediately (within 5 miles) the car was barely driveable. Had to get a carb rebuild kit and discovered a gasket half eaten away, and the intricacy's of a Rochester carburetor.

Put some injector cleaner in the gas tank of my Olds Silhouette and shortly after could only accelerate slowly, the engine was starved for gas. Replaced the fuel filter to correct.

One semi fix I had. During a trip out west Utah or Colorado I discovered a radiator leak. Not having the tools or wanting to waste the time on my vacation stopped at a auto parts store and was sold a little cube (looked like a bouillon cube) to stop the leak. Surprisingly it stopped the leak for the rest of the trip and a few months after, but the leak started again. I took the radiator out and had it repaired.